Veach thesis - formula question

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spectral
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Veach thesis - formula question

Post by spectral » Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:46 am

Hi all,

I'm currently looking at the Veach thesis and at the page 223 there is the following formula :
path_formulation_example.png
path_formulation_example.png (19.64 KiB) Viewed 7340 times
where
geometric_term.png
geometric_term.png (3.06 KiB) Viewed 7340 times
What is surprising me in this example is that the light is attenuated by the distance... of course it is normal to use G(x0 -> x1) (To convert the emission from the whole light source surface to the point x1).

But I don't understand why we continue to use G for the point x2 ? (and not simply use the solid-angle instead) ?

Thx
Spectral
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ingenious
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Re: Veach thesis - formula question

Post by ingenious » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:14 am

Because this function is integrated with (product) area measure, not solid angle measure. When you estimate that integral using Monte Carlo, and sample path vertices in a random walk via directional sampling, the pdfs of the resulting vertices, when converted to the area measure, have the same G term, which then cancels out. The conversion from solid angle to area measure is given by formula (8.10), which includes most of the terms in G.
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spectral
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Re: Veach thesis - formula question

Post by spectral » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:47 am

Thanks Ingenious,

It mean that if I move my camera at (by example) 10x the current distance, the image will become darker ? (because G(x2->x3)) ?!!
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Re: Veach thesis - formula question

Post by ingenious » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:01 pm

spectral wrote:It mean that if I move my camera at (by example) 10x the current distance, the image will become darker ? (because G(x2->x3)) ?!!
Whether the image will become darker depends on what you're looking at :) If you're looking at a diffuse surface with a wider extent than your viewing frustum, the image won't become darker. The path throughput, i.e. the inner part of f_j(x), without Le and We, will become smaller, and thus the whole f_j(x) will be smaller for a single path. But then also We (the camera importance function) will have larger support, so "more paths" will contribute to the image, and you'll get the same brightness in the end.
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spectral
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Re: Veach thesis - formula question

Post by spectral » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:54 pm

Thanks,

I have miss the "We" term, but how to compute it ?
Spectral
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Re: Veach thesis - formula question

Post by ingenious » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:44 pm

spectral wrote:I have miss the "We" term, but how to compute it ?
That's your pixel filter. You don't need to do anything special. When the camera moves back, it sees more points, hence the larger support of We. In another thread, I gave a link to Dietger's notes on sampling techniques, which covers bidirectional path tracing.
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Re: Veach thesis - formula question

Post by spectral » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:56 am

As usual, thanks Ingenious for your answers...

I have also take a look in pbrt and Dietger thesis (very well explained).
Everything is clear now... and even easy. This formulation sounds very practical... I'll give some try...

Thanks
Spectral
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ingenious
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Re: Veach thesis - formula question

Post by ingenious » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:48 pm

spectral wrote:This formulation sounds very practical...
And it is extremely useful and insightful theoretically. Not that many people appreciate it though.
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Re: Veach thesis - formula question

Post by spectral » Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:17 pm

Sure,

What's useful is that we can separate the rendering integral in several one, so we can mix them and solve each with different technique !
I even have some ideas for my own algorithm and constraint :-P

It will be funny to play with :-)

Thanks
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Igors
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Re: Veach thesis - formula question

Post by Igors » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:51 am

The G formula is a simplified solid angle calculation. But it works well only if light "far enough" (comparing to light area). If x-difference is small it does not produce correct results

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